1. As one who loooves his s000ted connectors, I've flopped OESFDs several times recently. Only once did I hit the SF. One I hit the str8 (playing T9 and the 8 hit) and it held, and once I hit the flush (Q high) and lost to somebody playing Ax s000ted.

First, let's figure out what he's got. He limped preflop, so unless he was slowplaying aces or something he could be on anything (just like you). 56, 67, 89, who knows. Given the limp preflop and the healthy raise, he's either on a draw, he is on Ax and paired it and is trying to get everybody out before bigger cards fall, or he slowplayed a big pair and is trying to get everybody out before someone makes a str8 or flush.

You've got a lot of options here. First, it is early in the tournament, so do you really want to risk damaging your stack here on a pair of 5s? Knowing you, of course you do :) In the past I probably would've flat called and seen the turn. The downside to that (and I speak from experience) is if nothing helps you out he's probably going to put in a much larger bet on the turn. Then you've got a really tough decision. And given his stack size, he'd most likely shove. Which brings me to my ultimate point...you've got him covered almost 2 to 1 in chips. You would damage your stack if it didn't hit, but it is early enough to recover. I say Hoy him! Make a point that you think he's got nothing worthwhile and that you're going to make him pay for staying in the hand when you bust him. Minibettor will prolly fold, and who knows what hattrick will do. If he folds, great! Another 500 chips. If he calls and is on a draw, yours is likely better. If he calls and has a bigger pair, two pair, whatever, you still have 15 outs twice to the mortal nuts. Drop the Hoy bomb and tear him up in the girlie chat. I've seen it work other times (plenty of times), so why not do it.

Posted at 2:53PM on Jan 17th 2007 by iamhoff

2. I'd have to agree with iamhoff. Simply calling here would probably be a mistake - make the move NOW and put him to a decision. I'm never one to back away from a OESFD. Sure, you're putting your tournament life on the line early, but then so will your opponent. Think he'll call a push with just an overpair or even two pair? Trust your read on him and make the big move. OUTS IS OUTS!!

Posted at 3:28PM on Jan 17th 2007 by Chipper

3. I'd raise here to find out where I'm at. Unless the raiser or the min-better is slowplaying a high pair (AA-TT), I'm thinking both of them are on a draw of some sort. There's a chance that one of them has a set, which would make sense based on the min-bet and the raise, but I think that you have too much potential to let this hand go. I'd re-raise to 500-600 and see what happens.

Posted at 3:32PM on Jan 17th 2007 by Pokerwolf

4. You're not honestly considering folding, right? The question alone made me chuckle :-)

I push. Give me the money in the pot right now, I'll take it. I don't want someone to put me to another decision on the turn if I miss. At that point, I would likely no longer be a favorite. Get the money in the pot now so if he calls, you're getting your money in with the best of it and if he folds, you win a 500+ chip pot... about a quarter of what you had before the hand.

Raising to find out where you are is a bad idea, IMO. You know where you are... you're sitting on a ton of outs. You don't need to probe to find out if you're behind because... you are. You are behind and favored. And in that case, you don't need any more information. If you can't stomach putting all your money in here with your possible 17 outs... then fold your hand and start waiting for the stone-cold nuts until you bust out.

Posted at 3:43PM on Jan 17th 2007 by CJ

5. I'm with CJ on this. This is my favorite drawing hand, and I always play this hand extremely aggressively. Put all the money in.

Posted at 4:29PM on Jan 17th 2007 by kaellinn18

6. Personally I would call here. If he's got high cards or possibly high pockets this flop didn't help him a great deal, he's probably scared of the flush draw and trying to take it down here with just 1 pair.

As you said, all you have now is a pair of fives, but if the next card is a high club, it could induce a higher bet when you've made your flush.

It's certainly a tricky spot, I found myself against an opponent last week with a straight flush draw on the flop when I had 2 pairs and he made it on the turn card! Talk about drawing dead.

Though given some of the other responses here, maybe I'm too green and not agressive enough in my play!

Posted at 5:17PM on Jan 17th 2007 by Aussie Pokerboy

7. Important information that is missing: what about the initial raiser? What happens before it gets to you? I'm under the impression that he folds, so this is based on that (though I'd probably do the same thing if he was in the hand, because I think I'm favored to win if I see two more cards.)

I want to see two more cards no matter what, and I have to be willing to put all my money in at some point for that to happen, so the question for me is: how do I get someone to call me with a hand I can beat?

I could jam now and hope that he folds. This is unlikely if he has a set or a group 1 pocket pair, but at the same time, if he has one of those hands, and he's capable of getting away from it when a flush or straight card hits, I will only get paid off if I gamboooool and jam it now.

All the money is going in on this hand, I think, so if I just call now, I think I have to be willing to call all-in on the turn no matter what, or put it all in on the turn no matter what.

I think that it's a good "go big or go home" moment, and if I jam now, I can win what's there if he folds, but I could also get paid off by a premium hand that I outdraw some time in the next two cards.

There's also the possibility that I'm up against some monkey who is over-playing AK or something, in which case now I'm way way way ahead.

So I vote for putting it all in now and taking the chance. Even if I lose the hand, I've got the villain covered, and I can fight my way back.

Posted at 7:35PM on Jan 17th 2007 by wil

8. Another vote for coming back over the top. The guy might be on a better flush draw but because you are holding 2 clubs he's actually drawing slimmer than he thinks (7 outs twice plus 3 or 6 for the overcards minus your straight outs). Bill Chen's new poker math book looks at this situation and *I think* I recall that draws are better off getting the money in on the flop because if you give the big overpair the turn to look at and its scary he might lay them down as well as if its a blank you then might be faced with a situation where you can't call.

If the stacks are really big maybe you raise for value instead of pushing, hoping the guy will get himself pot committed with a hand he would have otherwise folded???

Posted at 8:36PM on Jan 17th 2007 by SR

9. The biggest question I ask myself when I'm in this position (no matter my cards), is, "what does the min-better have?"

In my experience, min-bets are either a prayer that the other players in the hand have check/fold preselected, or they are a wolf in sheep's clothing, pocket aces or kings hoping someone will raise them so they can get all the money in the middle.

What are the chances that someone has a better flush draw? Not only does that devalue your draw, it takes away outs. I certainly wouldn't count the flush outs as whole outs (except for the straight flush card, obviously). I'd figure twelve outs here, max.

That still puts you at 48% or so to hit and win, if that count is accurate, meaning that folding isn't an option.

Now the question becomes, call or push. Do you have any read on these players? Is the raiser attempting a squeeze play on this small pot? Seems unlikely. Would the min-better try and slow play a set or a big pair this way? I don't know.

Against a set and aces, you are 45% to win. They will both likely call a push and if the min-better has a big pair, he'll likely push if you just call.

If you are only against a set and the min-better folds, your odds don't improve.

If you call and the min-better pushes, what will the raiser do? If they both push, what do you do? Does one of them have better clubs, making your flush outs almost worthless?

Seems like the only play is to make a big bet and see what happens. A push might be too much, but you'd certainly be committed either way.

Make their decision for them, it's the strongest play.

Posted at 10:05AM on Jan 18th 2007 by Kevin Ring

10. The higher flush draw is almost irrelevant as it is extremely unlikely. You also have a pair, so you're still ahead. They would be the one that needs the club outs (of which you have two and two more give you the nuts), not you. No decent player is going to call off all of their money with nothing but a flush draw if you push. If they do, you're ahead, and you've gotten them to make a mistake. Putting the chips all in is the clear play here.

Posted at 11:46AM on Jan 18th 2007 by kaellinn18

11. I'd probably agree with u... Put all money in it;the most evident decision...

Posted at 12:53PM on Jan 18th 2007 by Nina

12. Wil makes a good point, I wonder what min-bettor does have. Is he slowplaying a monster, hit a low pair, two overs, what? How has he been playing? He's got a stack close in size to yours, so he's obviously won a few pots. Based on that, I'll expand my original point of Hoying hattrick and join the pack and suggest shoving. Hoying hattrick would give minbettor the same opportunity as you to call and still risk only half of his stack. Isolate hattrick and shove. Minbettor should now not have the correct odds to call (depending on his hand, natch), and you should be in a good position. Even if minbettor calls and has a worthwhile hand, you still have outs dammit!!! And if you fill your SF, the only hand that could beat you is if he is playing JTc and the turn and river are the 9c 8c.

Posted at 3:09PM on Jan 18th 2007 by iamhoff

13. You need to raise and get this pot headsup with the middle player. You're obviously going to get some money into this hand, with your drawing possibilities; what you don't want is to give the min-bettor a good price to see the turn.

Posted at 9:47PM on Jan 18th 2007 by jeciimd

14. Why sweat over making a decision with a great hand?

Push and you a) get the dead money or b) are going to war with most likely half the deck in your favor (you could even be ahead with those 5s!)

Call and miss, then you've wasted chips for no reason.

PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSH

Posted at 12:32AM on Jan 19th 2007 by Drizztdj

15. I folded a str8 flush draw the other day... $100 cash table blinds 2-3, i have about $500 in chips... like 6 people in the pot... flop is 8 8 9... i have 10 jack of diamonds... first guy checks... second guy bets $15, third guy raises to $40... now its up to me... with that done i just called... then next 2 people folded and went back to the first guy who checked... he raised to $200(he led table in chips with about $600, only guy with more money than me on the table). next guy folded... guy after him went all in and pushed his remaining $250 in the pot... then i was like whoa whoa whoa what is going on here... i figured one of them must have 8 9, maybe even pocket 9's... i got scared and folded... first guy had king 8, other guy had jack 8... the turn was a queen(not a flush though), then the river was like a 4... i woulda won if i woulda shoved and joined the party... i will never fold a str8 flush draw again...

Posted at 5:08AM on Feb 3rd 2007 by Rudy Que